(EVER)Lasting beauty...
It was the father of abnormal sexuality studies, Richard von Krafft-Ebing, who first sketched out this condition of being aroused primarily by the elderly, offering a few impromptu case reports and a rather bland definition of gerontophilia as “the love of persons of advanced age.” In 1981, the sexologist John Money clarified this by defining gerontophilia as, “the condition in which a young adult is dependent on the actuality or fantasy of erotosexual activity with a much older partner in order to initiate and maintain arousal and facilitate or achieve orgasm.”
The critical point is that gerontophiles are largely dependent on having (or imagining) sex with an elderly partner in order to achieve orgasm, not simply that they are willing to do so. It is not about love alone.
So here's the deal: I am writing this because I could not find an old post where I talked about this movie. I watched it years ago and I thought it was really thought provoking (leave it to @brucelabruce to come up with this idea) and very unusual as subject. Now it came again to my mind after a fellow blogger (hey, Jon!) mentioned he's having conversations online with a (much) younger man.
You see, older people are most often seen as non-sexual. Like we die when we turn, what? fifty? Sixty? Seventy? Especially gay men. Gay men have this tendency to worship youth and the attributes associated with it: potency, elastic skin, visible muscles, low body fat index, stamina, supposedly strong libido, etc. So when an older gay man gets attention from a much younger suitor, our skepticism raises like foam in a bubble bath. And so do our suspicions: is it money? Is it ill intentions? WHAT is it?
Full disclaimer: I have dated older men all my life. I dated a man much, much older than me when I was a teen (older enough to raise many eyebrows). I have only dated men younger than me four times in my life. So I kind of understand feeling attracted to someone older than myself. I don't mind the gray, I don't mind the wrinkles, I don't mind many things associated with 'aging'. Now, I have never dated anybody forty years my senior, but you get the picture.
And why this? And why now? Well, it seems that that fellow blogger I mentioned has a -much- younger suitor and we have all kind of been low key warning him it could be a scam. But what if it IS real? What if Mr. Cleveland is actually interested in J because he finds him attractive? What if it's a paraphilia? We don't know. Historically there's been many famous May/December romances in the queer world. There's people writing about M/M romances with an age difference. It's not that unusual. Is our personal bias weighing heavy here? Is it because we think that older gay men are not attractive and all their have is their money because their looks are gone?
And no, those are not rhetorical questions.
XOXO
P.S. And M/M fiction is apparently full of this topic! Gimme!
I told Jon the same thing, but yes, it could be that he is genuinely attracted to older men. Up at the Woods where I go is an extremely hot, and sexy guy at check in that I had the hots for, but my friend told me to not waste my time as this guy only likes and is sexually turned on, and into, much, much older men then himself.
ReplyDeleteI myself have always dated older by maybe 10 years. Warbucks is 11 older but the Lad is 9 years younger than me. I usually never had a age requirement, I like what I like. Once in New Hope I befriended a much older man, I believe at the time he was in his early 80's, loved LOVED his stories of gay life then. And he always enjoyed my youthful stories of today. I knew he was attracted to me, it was one sided, but a few times he said he would get off just watching me undress and j/o for him, so I thought what the hell. I met up to do this many times over the years for him, or he could sit for some time just rubbing my cock in my square cuts or shorts. A few time he did ask if I would fuck him. Friends were appalled, but hey, it made him happy and feel good. If he got off watching me or he stroked me off, or the rare sex did happen, what was the issue!? He still had libido. Our younger generation is too quick to discount our gay elders, when we can both learn and benefit and enjoy life together... from each other.
Mads, we know you will be mostly likely still be getting hard-ons, and having sex at 103.
DeleteSame!
DeleteI have also seen younger men who are into much, much older men and everybody is like: "Gold Digger"! But that's what they LIKE. I also like what I like, but do tend to date older, natch.
And there's NOTHING like much older men telling stories! I LOVE to hear them. And some people keep their libido intact way past their seventies. More power to them!
XOXO
why not? no prejudices, please!
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely.
DeleteWe do bring a lot biases to our opinions of what people like or does not like...
XOXO
HuntleyBiGuy:
ReplyDeleteWhat goes on between consenting adults shouldn’t concern us. However, (isn’t there always a “however”?) we do have to look at this type of relationship with a bit of a skeptical eye, for the reason you stated. We don’t want friends or family to be scammed. As long as they are going into this with clear eyes and are vigilant, that’s the best we can hope for.
XOXO 👨🏼❤️💋👨🏽
Oh, totally.
DeleteAre there scammers ready to get some sweet, horny older man's money?
Definitely. That's why J has us.
XOXO
Age is a number, nothing else. It's really about commonality . There are plenty of Golddiggers out there who are looking for a meal ticket.
ReplyDeleteIt is.
DeleteSome of my most fun memories are with much older men, natch. And the golddiggers do abound. Caution is always recommended.
XOXO
I say just keep your eyes and ears and brain open in any new relationship, especially long distance and online ones, so you know who the person is as you move forward; of course, there are some who are good at hiding themselves. But LISTEN to what people say because they will always tell you the truth about themselves even if they don't know it.
ReplyDeleteI was really cautious about Carlos, and he about me, because we met online and lived so far apart, but we took it slow and were well aware of what we were doing.
xoxo
Oh, babes, YES!
DeleteAnd that's another layer added to the whole thing: the catfishing. The problem with older gay men is that they feel they don't have TIME. And that's a whole other issue...
XOXO
Big says,
ReplyDeleteWell, age difference can be tough. I'm 13 years older than my wife. But it's not unusual. She dated older men before we met. But caution should always be in the mix - at least at first. As I've often said on my blog, we are sexual beings, we are human, and desires can be all over the map. With as many May - December relationships as we see in the celebrity world, it shouldn't be shocking at all. XOXO
A man older than a woman? Never an impediment and very common.
DeleteI think my grandpa was also fifteen or sixteen years older than my grandma. My parents were closer in age, but still. Those were the models I had.
And people do keep their mojo, that's undeniable.
XOXO
Loved the trailer, I'd watch this. I have never been into dating or having sex with older men, I tend to go younger than myself. I have gone about maybe 5-6 yrs older a couple times. But to each their own, live and let live.
ReplyDeleteAnd you could watch it!
DeleteIt's on several streaming platforms and probably YouTube or Vimeo.
And having been the older partner probably gave you a different outlook to the relationships, too!
XOXO
Being the Jon in question I have to say thanks to you and all the readers of my blog for the honest care and advice. The mystical relationship with Mr. Cleveland continues and will be further documented on said blog. I saw that movie about a year ago and have since watched it several times. I am thinking how difficult it must be for the younger member of these relationships to first be able to find and convince an older man of their sincerity but then to face the pretty inevitable death of the one you love. And the other side of this discussion. Our community does not just tend to forget and ignore the older members but they actually "disappear" them as if they had never even existed. Here where I live now, I am finding, there is an entire "community" of elderly Queer men and women that have been driven so far back into a closet as to have never existed, all in the name of youth and beauty.
ReplyDeleteHey, Jon.
DeleteOh, we all follow your adventures (and stumbles) and accompany you from afar. I should have known you've watched this movie. Bruce LaBruce touched a nerve with it. I wish more people would have watched it.
I am both happy and sad you've find a whole set of Queer fellows. Happy because there's company and sad because heteronormativity has driven them back into the closet. It's fucking Texas, after all. I should not be surprised.
I hope you manage to call some of them out that second closet. There's no room for that in 2023. Not even in Texas.
XOXO
Actually Abilene is having its second annual Gay Pride Parade next Saturday and its theme is Recognize Those Who Brought Us This Far...Celebrating our Elder Gay Family. Sadly most of the older Queer community that I have met are not willing to "risk" being seen by members of their church, their family or their friends. It is like stepping back in time 50 or more years.
DeleteSo sad.
DeleteOne should not have to fear the risk of being 'seen' but other people. Gay people there still live in 1953...
XOXO